Climate Change

For many Indigenous communities climate change is not a distant problem

 

The inability or laziness of people to not take the time and research their sources is killing our ability to act proactively. We are constantly mired in misinformation, diversions, faulty logic, and lies.

From posts on another forum:

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By Renee Michel

13 Oct at 15:41 edited
Replies

294

Last reply

13:07

Views

1151

For years we have been in a war on misinformation. The misinformation about our radically changing climate is now being exposed. If you do not believe it, it just has not effected you personally yet. The problems are here now, people are dying now, crops are beginning to fail now. What can we do, what are you doing, what is the plan in your community?

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“N” Post:

How much colder would North America, Russia and Europe be without a warmer planet?..
But seriously, nothing can change the fact the IPCC is on record as saying global warming will produce milder, warmer winters. 🤔
The opposite seems true…

Renee Michel

edited

Nan, please provide the evidence of your statement. https://www.ipcc.ch/2018/10/08/summary-for-policymakers-of-ipcc-special-report-on-global-warming-of-1-5c-approved-by-governments/ What page?

 

“B” Post:

In Michigan, Hell has literally frozen over!
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-31/polar-vortex-leaves-11-states-colder-north-pole-hell-literally-freezes-over

Some of the comments on that link are quite funny. This one: “Al Gore is not accepting any calls at this time..” And this one: “I’ve finally got it figured out. If it’s colder than normal, it’s weather; and if it’s hotter than normal, it’s climate. What do I win?”

And this one that’s a bit more serious: “Not that I want to push weather doom and gloom, but our current solar minumin has not bottomed out yet – it will bottom out in 2023 which means more (and colder) polar vortacies till 2023 and then it will cycle slowly back up.”

 

Renee Michel

This thread is not about my opinion, it is about facts from scientists, scientific journals, peer reviewed research papers, scientific organizations, climate experts, and educators. In addition, I have provided information from reputable news sources and organizations. The point is – the climate is changing – it is not an opinion to be argued about, it is real and it is killing people and causing billions of dollars in damage to our infrastructure. The point to discuss is – what are we going to do about it, how are we going to adapt, how are we going to survive, what changes can we make, how are we going to cope?

“N” Post:

Renee, this thread does indeed seem to be about your opinion ( more than half the posts are yours), and whenever anyone disagrees with you or provides evidence to the contrary, you seem to get upset…

 

Renee Michel

Regarding South Africa. https://350africa.org/

Nan, there are exactly three people who pop on and try to turn this thread into an argument denying climate change. I have thanked all other commenters for their contributions and there have been many. V just made excellent points today that brought up the issue of how people get confused. In addition, as per the premise of this thread, I post as many articles and sources as I can. I am retired and have all the time in the world to read, research, and make posts. I try to write a post or two everyday. Almost every time I post something, I have provided a link to the information- so no – it is not all about my personal opinion. It is about sharing information about what we can do about the climate crisis. You made a statement about the IPCC and I asked you to share where you got that information from and provided even the link to the IPCC report. That is not being upset, that is asking you to back up what you stated. Otherwise it is you who are merely stating your opinion. So, are you going to answer? This is a serious thread, not a place to just say stuff without any back up. If we are to share valuable information with the aim of helping people we need to be making sure that information is valid. Regarding “evidence to the contrary”, if someone is trying to post evidence contrary to the premise of this thread, yes, I shut them down. We don’t have time for climate change deniers here. Those people can create their own thread in the forum. To post here, you agree with the premise as stated. Again, we do not have time for denial, too many people are dying. We need to get on with sharing information and finding solutions. For the record, I have many family members in Chicago and in the eastern part of the U.S. The extreme weather is no joke, it is not funny to me. The crazy fires in California this summer were not funny to me. The Climate Crisis, or as some have begun to call it, the Climate Emergency is real, it is dangerous, and it is becoming personal for many people. It is why I created this thread, to try and share what we can do about it.

 

Renee Michel

For people like me who like visuals, here is a good video to explain how the jet stream works : https://youtu.be/AV_FVs8RYxw

 

“N” Post:

edited

“Snowless winters” forecast by the IPCC in 2001, and countless other doomsday forecasts since global cooling in the 60’s- 70’s, that have not yet eventuated:

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/22289-climate-alarmists-have-been-wrong-about-virtually-everything

I back up everything l say, but you always ignore the links- see, the IPCC continually update their narrative to fit their political agenda.
As your president said: “It’s called weather,” and almost totally governed by solar activity.
He won the last election easily as many of your fellow Americans also overwhelming agree with him on this topic and others…
Ninety odd percent of climate scientists around the world toe the human induced climate change line because they lose their funding and jobs otherwise…
The thing with you alarmists is you want to frighten and shut down any debate because you believe you are right; the ultimate act of arrogance.
So, despite your protestations, the science is FAR from settled…

 

Renee Michel

edited

Your link: The New American. The New American (TNA) is a print magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS), a far-right organization.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-new-american/
I am very familiar with the John Birch Society. And as I pointed out, so called “climate change deniers” have their source in far-right political organizations.
I have looked at and read every source anyone posts here. And instead of scientific sources for your comments about science, you are posting the John Birch Society.

Scientists around the world are very conservative in their statements. They are very wedded to research and scientific observation. They have been wrong, on that you are correct. But on how they have been wrong, you are not correct. Instead of extreme collapse of climate systems happening in a century, it is happening within the decade, it is happening now.
This thread is not based on political ideology. The premise was set, this thread is not about opinion, it is about what is happening to our climate and suggestions on how we might prepare and cope with it.
The man currently president is not “my president” and far from being a scientist, he has been called out for not knowing the difference between weather and climate. These are things taught in elementary school science, of which I know a lot about because I taught science for 27 years.
This is obviously the wrong thread for you to comment in and you are more than welcome to create a thread for climate change denial.

Again: This thread is not about my opinion, it is about facts from scientists, scientific journals, peer reviewed research papers, scientific organizations, climate experts, and educators. In addition, I have provided information from reputable news sources and organizations. The point is – the climate is changing – it is not an opinion to be argued about, it is real and it is killing people and causing billions of dollars in damage to our infrastructure. The point to discuss is – what are we going to do about it, how are we going to adapt, how are we going to survive, what changes can we make, how are we going to cope?

 

https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/sites/2/2018/07/SR15_SPM_High_Res.pdf Referenced, data driven, scientific- the original documentation to read yourself.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/10/ipcc-report-climate-change-impacts-forests-emissions/ A summary of IPCC report.

 

01 Feb at 08:19 |

“N” Post:

…don’t shoot the messenger, they’re just reporting the documented facts- none of what was reported was fictional…
And as for the “far right organisations,” (sounds very conspirational itself!), if it’s OK for yourself to continually quote left wing sources, l reserve my right to quote your so- called far right “organisations .”
Good luck to your president…
P.S: if you in fact taught science for as long as you say, you would not deny the sun is the major driving factor in climate…
Again, this thread IS about your opinions, and anyone who differs from them is belittled, much like the left do in general…

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2015/02/25/cold-and-snow-destroy-global-warming-claims/amp/

 

Renee Michel

Regarding the naming of winter storms:
https://m.accuweather.com/en/press/84520

Extreme weather events: Intense, heavy snow storms does not equate to a greater winter snowpack. One must look to the overall measurements of seasonal precipitation.
https://www.iflscience.com/environment/does-global-warming-mean-more-or-less-snow/

https://abc7news.com/weather/2nd-snowpack-measurement-results-for-2018-far-below-average/3018818/
https://m.phys.org/news/2018-12-declining-snowpack-western-finer-scale.html
Link to research paper: https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018GL079621

https://m.phys.org/news/2017-04-impact-climate-snowpack.html
http://medialibrary.climatecentral.org/resources/by-tag/snow+and+ice

 

Renee Michel

More information on the jet stream: https://youtu.be/yObanrslYME

01 Feb at 09:22 | San José

Renee Michel

https://youtu.be/uJYWvnuA9w8 Paul Beckwith teaches in Ottawa and gives short informative videos that explain climate and weather. Here is one about the jet stream. He always provides links to the data so you can study it yourself.

 

Renee Michel

For those of you looking for information that is not biased to the left or the right – this is a good source for a search. You will notice that I have used many of the listed sources in my posts. If I posted a source by a left or even a right leaning source, it was because it was aligned with a **scientific** point of view. Most importantly, statements are backed up with factual data.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/pro-science/

ZeroHedge.com is on the https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/conspiracy/ conspiracy-pseudoscience list.
The New American https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-new-american/ is on the right-biased list.

Why is this important? If we are looking for information about science, information about data and facts – then it makes sense to look at sources that are packed with that sort of information. Then – as someone said – “don’t shoot the messenger” you analyze what is actually said. Yes – in this case – I shoot the messenger.

Here is what is said about Forbes.com – “A factual search reveals that Forbes has produced a misleading claim according to an IFCN fact checker. Although Forbes is usually evidence based when it comes to science, they do not always support the consensus when it comes to climate change. For example, they have employed James Taylor as a columnist who writes anti-climate science propaganda and has connections to the questionable Heartland Institute and Exxon-Mobil. They have also published articles by Roy Spencer, who has a long track record of climate change denial. Spencer has also been a speaker for the Heartland Institute and has connections to the fossil fuel industry. Lastly, Forbes has published several articles that are rated Very Low for Science Credibility by IFCN fact checker Climate Feedback.”
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/forbes/

The statements made were vague with no data to support them. This is what was meant in my very first sentence “For years we have been in a war on misinformation.” I have actually done my own fact checking on James Taylor and Roy Spencer – I did not take mediafactcheck.com at face value. They are right in what they have reported.

So, one has to ask ones self – where do you look for the most factual information on this topic that is so important to our lives?

Once again, someone has posted something about climate change denial and I am not here to waste time arguing the point. However, they continue to prove my point over and over again. When one looks close at climate change denial it always is sourced back to right-leaning think-tanks that are supported by fossil fuel and oil corporations. Why? Because those groups have everything to gain in maintaining the status quo.

Then one has to ask oneself, why would someone come on a thread about climate change, where the premise is clearly stated at the beginning, and write posts that attack or try to debunk the very topic?

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-internet-trolling-3485891

“Forums: Forums are made for discussing topics with like-minded people, but every once in a while, a troll will come in and start spewing negative words all over the place. If forum moderators don’t ban them, other members will often respond and before you know it, the thread gets thrown completely off topic and becomes nothing but one big pointless argument.”

I have read some other posts in other threads in the Forum and I have witnessed a perfectly great discussion be reduced to nothing but snarky remarks back and forth. I will not let this discussion digress to those depths. I have met numerous people who like reading this one for the information.
So my post today will be all that I will say on the matter. I hope this information will help everyone in looking for factual unbiased data. The three people who are acting like trolls are welcome to join this discussion if they contribute to the discussion. Otherwise, I have them on ignore.

 

“Nan”Post:

edited

Who is going to document and publsh the now long debunked claims and predictions about the global warming hoax ? Certainly not the majority left leaning media outlets, so when a right leaning medium publishes documented events, you want to re- write history by denying it ever happened, or at best, simply ignore it. All sounds very 1984 to me…
A good read for you if you are a science teacher: Heaven And Earth by Professor Ian Plimer; or if you prefer not to read: The Great Global Warming Swindle documentary ( lauded by CNN and Washington Times, BTW )…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2011/11/29/climategate-ii-more-smoking-guns-from-the-global-warming-establishment/amp/

 

Renee Michel

edited

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Ian_Plimer

So my post today will be all that I will say on the matter. I hope this information will help everyone in looking for factual unbiased data. The three people who are acting like trolls are welcome to join this discussion if they contribute to the discussion. Otherwise, I have them on ignore.

For a reminder – The premise of this discussion is: For years we have been in a war on misinformation. The misinformation about our radically changing climate is now being exposed. If you do not believe it, it just has not effected you personally yet. The problems are here now, people are dying now, crops are beginning to fail now. What can we do, what are you doing, what is the plan in your community?

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This is only a small sample of what the social media discussion is on climate change. Notice the person never answered where the IPCC comment is in the report. I do not think they even read the report – they get all of their information from a right-wing news rag. And this is the problem. Instead of taking the time to read the report for themselves, people are led around by opinion articles in corporate owned news outlets.Those corporations do not want anyone to change. So, we have a stagnation on critical action and people trying to argue that there is no such thing as climate change while Australia burns and the poles melt and the eastern part of the U.S. gets hit with polar temperatures.  The indigenous people of the world know about climate change, they have experienced it and have struggled to adapt. If there is any hope in salvaging anything on this planet, indigenous people know because they have an intimate knowledge of earth’s systems.

 

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